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Date: Fri, 18 Mar 94 16:49:59 EST
From: elharo@shock.njit.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
Subject: update wantfaq
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.wanted,misc.forsale.computers.mac,comp.answers,misc.answers,news.answers
Subject: Macintosh for sale frequently asked questions (FAQ)
Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.wanted
Organization: Department of Mathematics, NJIT
From: elharo@shock.njit.edu (Elliotte Rusty Harold)
Reply-To: elharo@shock.njit.edu (Elliotte Harold)
Approved: news-answers-request@mit.edu
Keywords: FAQ, sale, for sale, Macintosh, Mac, macintosh, mac
Summary: This document answers a number of the most frequently asked
questions about Macintoshes on Usenet. To avoid wasting bandwidth
and as a matter of politeness please familiarize yourself with this
document BEFORE posting.
Archive-name: macintosh/wanted-faq
Version: 2.2.4
Last-modified: March 17, 1994
Buying and Selling Macintosh Computers, Software and Peripherals
================================================================
comp.sys.mac.faq, part 5:
comp.sys.mac.wanted & misc.forsale.computers.mac
Copyright 1993,1994 by Elliotte Harold
Archive-name: macintosh/wanted-faq
Version: 2.2.4
Last-modified: March 17, 1994
What's new in version 2.2.4:
----------------------------
I've added question 3.7, Auctions.
2.3: Going prices?
As usual prices on used computers drop by about $25-100 on
various models. In particular continuing price cuts on the
Quadra 605 are really pushing the value of a used Mac down. Also
note that printer prices are also coming down, driven both by newer,
cheaper printers (HP DeskWriter 520, HP DeskWriter 560C, and the
Apple LaserWriter Select 360) and by the old stock Apple is
dumping into the market.
3.9: New Equipment Prices
Prices are dropping faster than I'm able to keep up with as
Apple dumps inventory and prices in preparation for the PowerMacs.
Quadra 605, 610 and 660AV prices are already down $100-$200.
Expect further across the board cuts of $50 to $500 on current
models in the very near future. Some models may be discontinued
but dealers should till have stock (and good deals) for some time.
After all, many still have Centris's in stock.
PowerMacs have arrived and as expected Apple is having trouble
meeting demand. Pricing is a little high initially but should ease
up some by summer.
The color StyleWriter Pro and the Houdini DOS compatibility
card are beginning to arrive at dealers. Pricing is quite reasonable
for both.
Table of Contents
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I. Buying and Selling Used Equipment
1. Should I buy/sell on Usenet?
2. Where should I buy/sell used equipment?
3. I've decided to completely ignore your excellent advice and
post my ad anyway. What should I do?
4. I've decided to completely ignore your excellent advice and
buy something offered for sale on the net anyway. How can
I avoid being ripped off?
II. Fair Market Value
1. How much is my computer worth?
2. What is used software worth?
3. Going prices?
III. Where Should I Buy a New Mac?
1. Authorized Dealers
2. VAR's
3. Superstores
4. Performas
5. Educational Dealers
6. Direct From Apple
7. Auctions
8. Does anyone know a dealer in New York City?
9. New Equipment Prices
IV. When Should I buy a New Mac?
1. Macrotime
2. Microtime
3. When will I get my Mac?
V. How Should I Buy a New Mac?
1. Know what you want
2. The dealer needs to sell you a mac more than you need to buy one
3. Have a competitor's ad handy
4. Cash on delivery
5. The sales tax game
6. Leasing
7. Be nice to the salesperson.
VI. The Gray Market and Mail Order
1. What is the gray market?
2. Are gray market Macs covered by Apple warranties?
3. Does anyone know a good mail-order company?
ADMINISTRIVIA
=============
Copyright
---------
This work is Copyright 1993, 1994 by Elliotte M. Harold.
Permission is hereby granted to transmit and store this document
as part of an unedited collection of any newsgroup to which it is
posted by myself. I also grant permission to distribute unmodified
copies of this document online via bulletin boards, online
services, and other providers of electronic communications provided
that no fees in excess of normal online charges are required for
such distribution; i.e. if the FAQ is available on a system, it
must be available at the minimum charge for accessing the system.
For instance you may post it to most BBS's that charge either a
flat monthly fee or a per hour rate. However if there is an extra
charge for downloading files over what is charged per normal
access, either per hour, per kilobyte, or per month, then the
FAQ may not be posted to that system without my explicit, prior
permission. Portions of this document may be extracted and quoted
free of charge and without necessity of citation in normal online
communication provided only that said quotes are not represented as
the correspondent's original work. Permission for quotation of
this document in edited, online communication (such as the Info-Mac
Digest and TidBITS) is given subject to normal citation procedures
(i.e. you have to say where you got it). If you wish to republish
this FAQ in a modified form or in a non-electronic medium, please
contact me with specific details. I'm normally receptive to
non-profits that wish to redistribute it at no charge, and to
anyone who is willing to make reasonable remunerative
arrangements for non-exclusive republication rights.
Disclaimer
----------
I do my best to ensure that information contained
in this document is current and accurate, but I can accept no
responsibility for actions resulting from information contained
herein. This document is provided as is and with no warranty of
any kind. Corrections and suggestions should be addressed to
elharo@shock.njit.edu.
Trademarks
----------
Apple, Macintosh, LaserWriter, ImageWriter, Finder, HyperCard
and MultiFinder are registered trademarks and PowerBook is a
trademark of Apple Computer, Inc. Linotronic is a registered
trademark of Linotype-Hell AG, Inc. PostScript is a registered
trademark and Illustrator and Photoshop are trademarks of Adobe
Systems, Inc. Microsoft is a registered trademark of Microsoft
Corporation. PageMaker is a registered trademark of Aldus Corp.
AutoDoubler and DiskDoubler are trademarks of Fifth Generation
Systems, Inc. StuffIt and StuffIt Deluxe are trademarks of Raymond
Lau and Aladdin Systems, Inc. All other tradenames are trademarks
of their respective manufacturers.
How to Retrieve the Entire FAQ
------------------------------
This is the FIFTH part of this FAQ. The first part is also
posted to this newsgroup under the subject heading "Introductory
Macintosh frequently asked questions (FAQ)" and includes a complete
table of contents for the entire document as well as information
on where to post, ftp, file decompression, trouble-shooting, and
preventive maintenance. The second, third and fourth parts are
posted every two weeks in comp.sys.mac.system, comp.sys.mac.misc
and comp.sys.mac.apps respectively . Please familiarize yourself
with all five sections of this document before posting.
All pieces are available for anonymous ftp from rtfm.mit.edu
[18.70.0.209] in the directory pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh.
Except for the introductory FAQ which appears in multiple
newsgroups and is stored as general-faq, the name of each file has
the format of the last part of the group name followed by "-faq",
e.g. the FAQ for comp.sys.mac.system is stored as system-faq and
the FAQ for comp.sys.mac.misc is stored as misc-faq. You can also
have these files mailed to you by sending an E-mail message to
mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu with the line:
send pub/usenet/news.answers/macintosh/"name"
in the body text where "name" is the name of the file you want as
specified above (e.g. general-faq). You can also send this server
a message with the subject "help" for more detailed instructions.
========================================
BUYING AND SELLING USED EQUIPMENT (1.0)
========================================
SHOULD I BUY OR SELL ON USENET? (1.1)
--------------------------------------
No, you should not. Usenet is a medium by which information
is broadcast to millions of different people around the world.
It's almost certain that noone in Singapore wants to buy a Canadian
Classic 4/40, even at a really great price. Import laws, the cost
of international shipping and a host of other concerns pose too
big an obstacle to the sale of small quantities of used equipment.
Even within one country geographical distances often pose a severe
obstacle to the sale of used goods. There is simply too great
a chance of either seller or buyer being ripped off in a
long-distance transaction via non-payment, non-delivery,
or non-usable equipment.
WHERE SHOULD I BUY/SELL USED EQUIPMENT? (1.2)
----------------------------------------------
LOCAL bulletin boards, both of the electronic and paper
varieties, are a far better medium for the sale of used hardware,
software, and other tangible quantities. Some Usenet sites and
local areas have local for sale newsgroups (e.g. nj.forsale
here in New Jersey) which are more appropriate for classified
advertising than netwide groups like comp.sys.mac.wanted. In
large cities and college towns you should reach just as many
potential buyers by advertising locally as by posting to the net.
Advertising locally gives both the seller and the buyer the BIG
advantage of being able to meet to test the system, verify that
what is being offered is in fact what is available, and avoiding
the hassle of shipping. The chance of being ripped off either
through non-payment or non-delivery is GREATLY reduced by
advertising and selling locally.
I WANT TO POST MY AD ANYWAY. WHAT SHOULD I DO? (1.3)
------------------------------------------------------
First see section 2.0 below to try and decide on a reasonable
price. Be prepared for flames if your price is too far out of line
including follow-up posts warning potential buyers that you are
trying to rip them off. You may just want to state "best offer."
That way you aren't responsible if someone else misvalues your
equipment. If an offer does come in that meets your minimum price,
you can sell it. If there are no reasonable offers, you don't have
to sell.
Be sure to include a descriptive subject line in your post.
For Sale, Macintosh For Sale, and Macintosh Software For Sale are
all HORRIBLE subject lines. Better subject lines would be
SE/30 4/40, $695 or best offer
or
Photoshop 2.5, unopened, $250.
Then include a more detailed description in the body of the post.
Also be sure to state whether or not you'll pay shipping. (It's
much easier to sell an item if you agree to pay shipping.)
You should post your notice in comp.sys.mac.wanted and
misc.forsale.computers.mac ONLY. Posting a for sale ad to
comp.sys.mac.misc is guaranteed flame-bait, even more so if your
offer is over-priced. You should also restrict the distribution of
your message to as local an area as possible. Ask your local news
administrator for help if you don't know how to do this.
Finally if you've sold your item please don't post a message
saying the item has been sold. Most of us don't care. If you are
getting a lot of offers and want to take the item off the market,
it's better to cancel the original message. The bandwidth cost is
the same, but you'll save a lot of people the trouble of reading
two now-pointless messages from you. Again you may need to ask
your local news administrator how to do this.
HOW CAN I AVOID BEING RIPPED OFF WHEN I BUY SOMETHING FROM THE NET? (1.4)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can't, which is the single biggest reason I recommend
against buying and selling on Usenet. The most effective
precaution you can take is to insist on check-on-delivery. That
way you give the seller nothing until something is delivered, and
you can stop payment on the check if what is delivered is not what
was advertised. This may cost a few dollars more, but the added
security is more than worth it. NEVER pay in advance for used
goods from an unknown shipper.
You may also want to insist on a work address and phone number
for the seller. This is especially effective if the forsale post
originates from a company account. The threat of being harassed at
work is more effective than the threat of legal action against some
unscrupulous individuals who realize you probably won't sue but may
complain to their boss. Even when dealing with completely honest
individuals it's still much easier to haggle over terms and work
out shipping arrangements via phone than through protracted
E-mail exchanges.
========================
FAIR MARKET VALUE (2.0)
========================
HOW MUCH IS MY USED HARDWARE WORTH? (2.1)
------------------------------------------
Make your lowest estimate of the resale value of your hardware
taking into account current prices on new hardware of equivalent
capability. Then divide that estimate by two. The price you now
have is somewhere above the fair market value of your hardware.
Almost everyone severely overestimates the value of their
equipment. I've seen friendships and business relationships
destroyed once buyers realized how badly they'd been taken EVEN
THOUGH THE SELLERS DID NOT INTENTIONALLY MISLEAD THE BUYERS.
Computers are like cars in that they lose 30% of their value
as soon as you walk out of the dealer's showroom with one. They
are unlike cars in that they lose more value when new models are
released irregardless of the condition or age of the previous model.
Unlike cars newer models of computer really are better. High-end
systems retain their value longer. My 5/45 SE/30, a high-end system
when I bought it four years ago, is still barely salable today.
Had I purchased a low-end Plus instead it would at most be worth
$100 for parts.
WHAT IS USED SOFTWARE WORTH? (2.2)
-----------------------------------
Almost nothing. It's certainly worth less than the cost of
distributing a for sale message around the world on Usenet. If the
software is the current version AND includes all original master
disks and manuals AND a notarized letter transferring ownership
from the original purchaser to the new owner, then it's worth
about half of the current mail-order or educational discount price,
whichever is lower. Especially note that software left on a hard
disk when a computer is sold adds NOTHING to the value of the
system. The buyer can pirate payware and download shareware
just as easily as the seller.
NO REALLY, HOW MUCH IS MY SYSTEM WORTH? (2.3)
----------------------------------------------
I'll give a few numbers I consider current as of late 1993.
Unlike the completely ridiculous prices you'll find in the AmCo
index these values shouldn't leave the buyer feeling ripped off.
As a seller you can often get higher prices than these, but as a
buyer these represent what you should be able to bargain somebody
down to. Asking prices and configurations vary WILDLY so haggle
and don't be afraid to wait for a better deal if you don't like
what someone is offering.
When trying to determine reasonable prices for discontinued
equipment I consider several factors. First I set a floor for a
given model based on what used equipment dealers like Sun Remarketing
are willing to pay for inventory and by what repair shops will pay
for parts. Then I set a ceiling based on two thirds of typical
prices for a model at used computer dealers. Used computer dealers
can charge more than individuals because they do offer warranties
that provide some protection against buying a lemon. Nonetheless the
Macintosh market moves so fast that dealers of used equipment
sometimes aren't able to unload inventory before the price of
equivalent new models drops below what they paid for inventory. The
existence of many of these dealers is marginal and depends heavily on
customers who assume that new equipment is more expensive than old
and that mail order is cheaper than buying from the local dealer,
neither of which is necessarily true. Thus I also considered the
prices of equivalent and better new machines as well.
The real kicker here is the LC 475 (a.k.a. Quadra 605), a
25 MHz 68LC040 (no FPU) with 14" basic color monitor, 4 megs RAM, 80
megabyte hard disk, keyboard and a 12 month warranty for about $1200
new. Very few used Macs currently being offered for sale have as
much horsepower as this machine though some may have additional
features such as a better monitor or more slots. However very few
people buying used equipment need a better monitor or more than
one expansion slot. Thus as a buyer or a seller ask yourself what
a machine is worth compared to an LC 475. Within this range I try
to set the suggested price in the ballpark of the lowest asking price
I've seen on Usenet or elsewhere. Finally I adjust the prices a
little between models to make sure that equivalently capable used
Macs cost about the same amount. My ultimate goal is to ensure that
a buyer who pays the price listed here does not feel cheated in a
transaction, either because they see the Mac they just bought for
$1000 advertised for $500 two weeks later or because they realize
they could have bought a better Mac new for the same money. Both
of these happen far too frequently.
These prices are mainly for discontinued models. For models
that are still available new, see the list in question 3.8. Figure
the same system used is worth about 64% of that price plus an
extra half percent for every month of warranty coverage left. For
compact Macs all prices include a keyboard and mouse. Take $100
off the price if there's no keyboard or mouse or both. Otherwise
the prices are just for the base CPU with internal hard drive and
RAM. Most offers to sell do include a monitor, keyboard and mouse
and some room for haggling so asking prices will typically be
somewhat higher. RAM and hard drive configurations can vary
greatly. I've tried to include the high and low ends as well as
the configurations you're most likely to run across. Use your best
judgment when interpolating and extrapolating to other models.
Mac 128 $50
Mac 512 $60
Mac 512ke $75
Mac Plus 1/0 $100
Mac Plus 4/0 $150
SE 1/0 $150
SE 1/20 $200
SE 4/0 $200
SE 4/40 $275
SE/30 1/0 $300
SE/30 4/40 $500
SE/30 5/80 $550
SE/30 8/80 $600
Classic 4/40 $275
Classic 4/80 $325
LC 4/40 $300
LC 4/80 $350
LC 8/80 $400
LC II 4/40 $400
LC II 4/80 $450
LC II 8/80 $500
Mac II 0/0 $300
Mac II 0/0/FDHD $350
Mac II 8/40 $450
Mac II 4/105/FDHD $550
Mac IIx 0/0 $400
Mac IIx 8/80 $675
Mac IIci 0/0 $575
Mac IIci 8/80 $725
Mac IIcx 0/0 $350
Mac IIsi 2/0 $425
Mac IIsi 3/40 $520
Mac IIsi 5/80 $575
Mac IIsi 5/120/FPU $600
Mac IIfx 0/0 $1100
Mac Portable 1/40 $350
Mac Portable 4/40 $400
Mac Portable 4/80/Backlit $450
Quadra 700 4/0 $700
Quadra 700 4/80 $900
Quadra 700 8/105 $1100
Quadra 900 4/0 $1200
Quadra 900 4/160 $1500
PowerBook 100 2/20 $500
PowerBook 100 4/40 $575
PowerBook 140 2/20 $600
PowerBook 140 4/40 $675
PowerBook 140 4/120 $850
PowerBook 145 4/40 $750
PowerBook 160 2/20 $800
PowerBook 160 4/40 $900
PowerBook 170 4/40 $1100
PowerBook 170 4/80 $1175
PowerBook 170 8/40/modem $1200
PowerBook 170 4/120 $1265
ImageWriter $50
ImageWriter II $75
ImageWriter LQ $100
StyleWriter $135
Personal Laserwriter SC $200
Personal Laserwriter LS $235
Personal Laserwriter NT $285
Personal Laserwriter NTR $335
LaserWriter IISC $300
LaserWriter IINT $500
LaserWriter IINTX $600
LaserWriter IIf $735
LaserWriter IIg $995
Apple CDSC $75
Apple CD-150 $100 (New at MacWarehouse for $150)
Apple Standard Keyboard $50
Apple Extended Keyboard $85
Apple 12" B/W Monitor $115
Apple 13" HiRes Color $300
Apple Portrait Display $265
====================================
WHERE SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (3.0)
====================================
AUTHORIZED DEALERS (3.1)
-------------------------
Hard as it may be to believe Apple authorized dealers are
normally the most reliable, best stocked, and cheapest source of
Apple brand equipment. You are unlikely to do better by buying at
educational discount, at a superstore, or by mail-order (though
walking in with the price list from a local university or
superstore is often the quickest way to cut through a lot
of haggling).
VAR'S (3.2)
------------
I include Value-Added Resellers (VAR's for short) only for the
sake of completeness. These dealers custom configure Macintoshes
for specific purposes and sell them at a premium price. Generally
they are uninterested in single CPU, retail sales. Very few will
even attempt to match rock bottom prices. However they are about
the only part of the dealer channel that provides significant
after-sale support to their customers.
SUPERSTORES (3.3)
------------------
Superstores like CompUSA are fairly hassle-free since they
won't do any haggling except on the largest orders. They should be
able to match a competitor's advertised price though you may need
to show them an ad with the better price first. On the other hand
any authorized dealer should almost certainly be able to beat a
superstore price. After all, noone puts their best price in an ad
for all their competitors to see. The best use for a superstore is
to tell salespeople at authorized dealers what prices they need to
beat to get your business.
PERFORMAS (3.4)
----------------
At various times Apple repackages different models of LC's,
Classics and Quadra's with slightly different software and sells
them as Performa's through consumer outlets like Sears. With
one exception (the Performa 600) these have all been virtually
identical to one model or another of the Macs sold at authorized
dealers except for the bundled software. Most of the time the
regular model is cheaper than the equivalent Performa, especially
if you don't want the bundled software; but this isn't always true
so you should double-check the price of a Performa compared to the
model you want to buy. Finally most Performa dealers will sell Macs
over the phone to customers they've never met. So if you can't find
what you want locally, a Performa may be a reasonable choice.
EDUCATIONAL DEALERS (3.5)
--------------------------
The nicest thing about campus computer stores is that they're
willing to distribute firm price lists with reasonable prices so
there's no need to haggle. Also since they typically don't work
on commission they're much more honest and open than the average
authorized dealer. The worst thing about campus computer stores is
that educational dealers are normally the last part of the channel
to get product. If you order a Mac that isn't in stock through
an educational dealer, plan on waiting at least two months for
delivery. However educational prices haven't fallen at the same
rate as have prices in other channels over the last two years
(mainly because educational prices were much lower to start with)
so larger authorized dealers should now be able to match or beat
educational prices. One of the most effective tactics for dealing
with an authorized dealer that cuts through a lot of hassle and
haggling is walking in with a copy of a local university price
list and asking "Can you do better?"
DIRECT FROM APPLE (3.6)
------------------------
Apple began selling a limited number of models directly about
a year ago. However direct prices really aren't competitive with
authorized dealer prices. In some cases Apple even tries to sell
at list price. Nonetheless if you'd like a catalog you can get
one by calling 1(800)795-1000.
AUCTIONS (3.7)
---------------
Apple has recently begun to dump overstocked equipment at
various auctions around the country. Most of the time this is NOT
a good way to get a good deal on a new Mac. Once auctioneers fees
(5%) are factored in prices tend to be higher than you'd pay at a
dealer for newer, better models. However some deals are possible
if you know what you want and how much its worth. Here are a few
rules of thumb for shopping at auction:
1. Get a list of the merchandise offered for sale. Be sure to
preview the items before the auction. Auction configurations are
not always the same as dealer configurations. Check whether the
models you're interested in are new or demos and what their
warranty status is. New equipment should have a full
one year warranty.
2. Make a list of street prices and prices you're willing to pay
for everything you might bid on. The sections on new and used
equipment prices in this FAQ can be of great help here.
3. Don't get caught up in the excitement of the auction. NEVER bid
more than you planned on for any piece.
4. Powerbooks almost always sell for more than their street price.
Don't even bother attending an auction if you only want
a PowerBook.
DOES ANYONE KNOW A DEALER IN NEW YORK CITY? (3.8)
--------------------------------------------------
If you're planning a trip to New York, you may want to do a
little Mac shopping on the side. New York City is one of the most
competitive Mac markets in the country, and the prices here reflect
it. For the current ads of most NYC dealers pick up a copy of the
city edition of Tuesday's New York Times. Below I list several
dealers you may want to check out.
PCSI
104 East 23rd Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues
(212) 255-7600
I've dealt with PCSI several times over the last few years
and they've always been friendly, honest, and had competitive
prices.
MPC
4 West 20th Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenues
(212) 463-8585
I worked at MPC for about a year a few years back. Since
MPC is also a full-service service bureau as well as being an
authorized dealer, they're by far the most technically
knowledgable dealership in NYC. The prices aren't bad either.
J&R Computer World
15 Park Row
NY NY 10038
(212) 238-9000
This is New York City's superstore. Like most superstores
there's limited haggling, not particularly knowledgable
salespeople, and decent prices; but you can often do better by
going to one of the other dealers and saying "J&R has it for
$2000. Can you beat that?"
NEW EQUIPMENT PRICES (3.9)
---------------------------
What follows are mostly maximum prices you should expect to
pay for current Apple models in standard configurations. You should
have no trouble getting these prices at any Apple reseller in the
United States with a little haggling. In competitive markets or
if you're buying several Macs at once, you may be able to get up to
10% or more off these prices. If you do manage to significantly beat
these prices on a single Mac purchase I'd like to hear about it so I
can keep this list current. Most dealers are unlikely to stock all
configurations listed here. You'll generally get a better price if
you order what's in stock (not to mention you'll get it quicker.)
Finally be sure to check the Last modified date at the top of this
file. Apple has been known to drop prices faster than I can post
FAQ lists.
For non-Apple equipment prices just scan the back pages of any
issue of MacWorld or MacUser. Since most companies besides Apple
are willing to authorize mail-order dealers, the mail-order prices
on Radius monitors, GCC printers, Quantum Hard Drives and other
third party peripherals should be fairly close to the minimum you
can expect to for such items.
Classic II 2/40 $600
Classic II 4/80 $700
Color Classic 4/80 $815
LC III 4/80 $700
LC III 4/160 $805
LC 475 4/80 (aka Quadra 605) $750
LC 475 8/160 $1050
LC 520 5/80/CD $1560
LC 520 8/160/CD $1790
LC 550 4/160 $1195
LC 575 5/160/CD $1650
Mac TV 5/160/CD $1995
IIvx 4/80 $750
IIvx 5/80/CD $1050
IIvx 4/230 $950
IIvx 4/230/CD $1250
Centris 610 4/80 $800
Centris 610 8/230 $1200
Centris 610 8/230/CD $1450
Centris 650 8/230 $1500
Centris 650 8/230/CD $1800
Quadra 610 8/160 $1200
Quadra 610 8/160/DOS $1500
Quadra 610 8/230 $1400
Quadra 610 8/230/CD $1680
Quadra 650 8/230 $1900
Quadra 650 8/500 $2600
Quadra 650 16/230 $2400
Quadra 650 8/230/CD $2200
Quadra 650 8/500/CD $2600
Quadra 660av 8/80 $1300
Quadra 660av 8/230 $1600
Quadra 660av 8/230/CD $1795
Quadra 660av 8/500 $2000
Quadra 660av 8/500/CD $2300
Quadra 800 8/230 $2200
Quadra 800 8/500 $2700
Quadra 800 8/500/CD $3000
Quadra 800 8/1000 $3700
Quadra 840av 8/230 $2800
Quadra 840av 8/230/CD $2995
Quadra 840av 8/500 $3350
Quadra 840av 16/500 $3600
Quadra 840av 16/500/CD $3800
Quadra 840av 16/1000/CD $4400
Quadra 950 8/0 $2800
Quadra 950 8/230 $3100
Quadra 950 8/400 $3250
Quadra 950 8/500 $3500
Quadra 950 16/1000 $4300
PowerMac 6100 8/160 $1600
PowerMac 6100 8/250/CD $1995
PowerMac 6100 16/250 $2200
PowerMac 6100AV 8/250/CD $2300
PowerMac 7100 8/250 $2650
PowerMac 7100 8/250/CD $2895
PowerMac 7100 16/250 $3095
PowerMac 7100AV 8/500/CD $3700
PowerMac 8100 8/250 $3795
PowerMac 8100 8/250/CD $3999
PowerMac 8100 16/500 $4695
PowerMac 8100AV 16/500/CD $4999
PowerMac 8100 16/1000/CD $5995
PowerBook 145b 4/40 $995
PowerBook 145b 4/80 $1130
PowerBook 165 4/80 $1495
PowerBook 165 4/160 $1795
PowerBook 165 4/160/Modem $1995
PowerBook 165c 4/80 $1490
PowerBook 165c 4/120 $1710
PowerBook 165c 4/120/Modem $1910
PowerBook 180 4/80 $1950
PowerBook 180 4/120 $2170
PowerBook 180 4/120/Modem $2370
PowerBook 180c 4/80 $2250
PowerBook 180c 4/160 $2460
PowerBook 180c 4/160/Modem $2670
Duo 210 4/80 $795
Duo 230 4/80 $995
Duo 230 4/120 $1095
Duo 230 4/120/Modem $1195
Duo 250 4/200 $1850
Duo 250 12/200/Modem $2300
Duo 270c 4/240 $2500
Duo 270c 12/240/Modem $2995
Duo Dock 512K VRAM $625
Duo Dock 1/230/FPU $980
Duo Minidock $380
StyleWriter II $250
StyleWriter Portable $375
Color StyleWriter Pro $595
ImageWriter II $375
Personal LaserWriter 300 $450
LaserWriter Select 300 $500
LaserWriter Select 310 $650
LaserWriter Select 320 $815
LaserWriter Select 360 $1395
LaserWriter Pro 600 $1695
LaserWriter Pro 630 $1795
LaserWriter Pro 810 $4100
Apple Color Printer $430
12" Monochrome Monitor $155
Apple Basic Color Monitor $195
Apple Color Plus 14" Display $285
Macintosh 14" Hi-Res Display $450
AudioVision 14" RGB Display $600
Macintosh 16" Color Display $850
Apple CD-300 $340
Apple Keyboard II $70
Extended Keyboard $150
Adjustable Keyboard $125
One-Scanner $660
Color One-Scanner $880
Express Modem $275
GeoPort Adapter $99
Power-CD $179
AppleCD Multimedia Kit $599
DOS Compatibility Card $395
===================================
WHEN SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (4.0)
===================================
MACROTIME (4.1)
----------------
Apple releases new models of Macs about every three months.
The next major releases will probably be on March 14 when the first
PowerPC based desktop Macs will make their debut. (I don't expect
PowerPC Macs to be widely available for at least two months after
introduction though.) Next on April 25 Apple will introduce the
"Blackbird" 68040 PowerBooks which will become available a few
weeks later. Then probably in January of 1995 the first PowerPC
603 PowerBooks should become available. As usual all new models
will probably be faster and cheaper than the models they replace.
Prices on models being replaced often drop by 15-20% either shortly
before or after the introduction of new models. In particular the
introduction of a rebate program is a sure sign that Apple is
clearing out old stock in preparation for the introduction of
new models.
If you don't already have a desktop Mac or a PowerBook, then
by all means buy now. The time you gain with your Mac by buying
now should immensely outweigh the money savings of buying later.
Upgrades to a PowerPC processor should be available sometime this
summer for all Quadra models, but since you'll already have a Mac
you'll be able to wait while others shake out the inevitable bugs
in PowerPC hardware and software before you upgrade.
However if you already own a Mac, especially a 68030 or better,
then I'm inclined to suggest you wait as long as you can before
replacing it. The future lies with the PowerPC, not with the 68040
and 68030 models available now; and if you buy one of those now,
it's going to become obsolete and slow even faster than Macs have
done in the past. (The Mac doesn't really become slower. It's the
software that gets more bloated and less efficient, but you get the
idea. When I recently complained about the speed of some software
I was beta-testing, the programmer told me it seemed fine on his
low-end Mac, a IIci that's twice as fast as my SE/30. It took
four years for my high-end SE/30 to become something not worth
programmers' time to worry about. Today's high-end Quadra 800's
and 900's should make that same journey in less than half that
time.) If your current Mac isn't totally inadequate for the
work you're doing it's almost certainly more sensible to wait.
Furthermore in a world where even the low end desktop Macs
are 25MHz 68040's the current crop of PowerBooks are woefully
under powered. If you want a PowerBook, especially one you intend
to use as a primary Mac, I'd wait for a 68040 or even a PPC 603
PowerBook. In the meantime perhaps you can satisfy your
techno-lust with an external hard drive or a printer or
something else you can transfer to a new Mac later.
MICROTIME (4.2)
----------------
If you're buying a low end home system from a high end
corporate dealer and you want demos or a lot of questions answered,
shop on the weekend. During the week salespeople tend to be busy
with much larger sales and aren't very interested in selling one
4/80 Classic II. On the weekends, however, especially on Sundays,
salespeople are often twiddling their thumbs waiting for any
customer at all. On the other hand if you know exactly what you
want and how much you want to pay for it, shop in the middle of a
weekday, preferably the day or two after the ads come out in the
local papers. During busy times salespeople are much more inclined
to give in to your $750 cash offer for a 4/80 Classic II just to
get you out of their hair.
WHEN WILL I GET MY MAC? (4.3)
------------------------------
I've never heard of a delivery taking more than a year, and
most Macs ordered through whatever channels arrive within six
months. However I strongly recommend not putting more than a one
dollar deposit on any Mac purchase and making certain that you can
back out of a purchase at any time up until the goods are actually
delivered and signed for. It's not uncommon for Apple to lower
prices or deliver an improved model at lower cost before all orders
for older models have been filled. This is especially common for
orders placed through the educational channel. For hot models like
the Quadra 605 you may want to place orders at several dealers to
have a reasonable chance of getting what you want when you want it.
==================================
HOW SHOULD I BUY A NEW MAC? (5.0)
==================================
KNOW WHAT YOU WANT (5.1)
-------------------------
When you walk into the store where you're thinking about buying
for the first time, you should know exactly what you need and the
exact maximum price you will pay for that equipment. Never go in
to "discuss" your needs with a salesperson. Remember they are
there to sell you a computer, not to help you out. If you really
want to discuss your needs, talk to a knowledgable friend or
even hire a freelancer who specializes in Macintosh (not PC!)
pre-purchase consulting. At least that way you're talking to some
one who works for you rather than the store. You probably want
to ask the salesperson what price they can give you on the system
you want before you tell them what price you want to pay. I have
occasionally been surprised by a salesperson who initially offered
me a system at a price several hundred dollars lower than the price
I expected to pay. This is more common on high end systems like
840av's than on low end ones like Classics since there's still more
money for a dealer in a 3% markup on an 840av than in a 10% markup
on a Classic.
Buy the base CPU with the minimum amount of RAM it ships with
and possibly an internal Apple hard disk, an external monitor, and
maybe an Apple printer from your authorized dealer, nothing else.
Many dealers have excellent prices on CPU's but jack up the price
on peripherals to near list. They offer very good prices on the
base configurations of Macintosh and then pile on the extras, $200
for a modem, $50 for a surge supressor, $100 a megabyte for RAM.
Guess where their profit's coming from. Some dealers don't even
bother to put individual prices on your sales order, just a package
price, so you won't realize how much they're ripping you off on the
peripherals. Almost no Authorized Apple Dealer is able to beat
mail-order or unauthorized dealer prices on non-Apple peripherals.
All other non-Apple brand equipment should be purchased from a
dealer who specializes in peripherals, possibly through mail order.
And never, ever, buy software from an authorized Apple dealer.
Software can always be had mail order for about half the price
you'd pay an Apple dealer.
Many stores offer to set-up and test your system for you.
Typical fees range from $50 to $100 and include hard disk
initialization, system software installation, burn-in time, and
installation of one software package (normally HyperCard Player
unless you request otherwise in writing on the sales order). In
other words they're trying to get an extra $75 out of your pocket
to make sure that the computer they're selling you works. This is
a crock. While these charges might be justified on a PC whose setup
is traditionally more problematic, Macintosh set-up is so easy that
anyone who can navigate Usenet can certainly plug in their own Mac.
THE DEALER NEEDS TO SELL YOU A MAC MORE THAN YOU NEED TO BUY ONE (5.2)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Remember that the salesperson needs the sale more than
you do. The more time a salesperson spends with you the more
pressure they're under to justify that time to their sales manager
by selling you something. Hemming and hawing over the price
(especially if you haven't told the salesperson how much you expect
to pay) can often lower it. You can ALWAYS get a lower price than
advertised. Aside from the prices in this list a good idea of when
a salesperson is genuinely giving you the lowest price can be had
by noticing the level at which they have to check a price with
their sales manager.
HAVE A COMPETITOR'S AD HANDY (5.3)
-----------------------------------
Nothing is more helpful in convincing salespeople to
lower their prices than a competitor's published ad or written
estimate showing a lower price. This works even if you have no
intention of buying from the competitor in the first place (for
instance because it's a mail order ad and you don't want to buy
through the mail). Except on the cheapest Mac Classic systems you
should ask that the salesperson beat the price by at least $50 and
maybe as much as $300 on high end systems. Justify it on the
grounds that you don't want to have to shuttle back and forth
between dealers to keep getting a $10 drop in price every time.
CASH ON DELIVERY (5.4)
-----------------------
If you're buying at a dealership, don't pay a penny until the
salesperson brings all pieces of what you've paid for out for you
to see. While delivery is sometimes more convenient, it's a lot
safer if you walk out the store with your computer. Too many
disreputable dealers sell stock they don't have, especially of very
popular items. If you must have the computer delivered to you,
insist on a clause in the sales contract specifying that delivery
must be made by a certain date and time or else the full purchase
price shall be immediately refunded. The clause should also
specify that delivery is the responsibility solely of the seller.
It will normally be necessary to cross out (and initial the change)
of a standard clause in the sales contract stating the opposite.
For maximum safety insist that the sales manager also approve that
change in the contract in writing.
Dealers typically pay between 3-5% of the purchase price
(including sales tax) to the credit card company for any purchase
you make on a credit card. Since the margins they'll be getting on
their sale to you are thin enough already, expect that they will
pass the cost of a credit card on to you. If you intend to
purchase your Macintosh on credit and you're not buying mail order,
you're probably better off getting a bank loan or getting a cash
advance on your credit card so that you can give the dealer cash
(or a certified check.) Your interest charges shouldn't be any
higher than if you paid with a credit card in the first place,
(though there won't be any grace payment for repayment) and the
loan or advance charges probably won't be as much as the dealer
would raise prices for a credit sale. Of course if you're buying
by mail you should definitely use a credit card despite any added
expense. Since most mail order companies have higher volume and
lower overhead than independent dealers, the price difference
shouldn't be very far away from the cash price. Some credit cards
offer extended warranties and theft protection on purchases made
with the card. If yours does then the added protection may be
worth the extra money for using a credit card, especially if you're
buying an easily stolen or easily broken item like a Powerbook.
THE SALES TAX GAME (5.5)
-------------------------
In some sections of the U.S. a significant savings can
be realized by crossing a city or state line in search of a more
favorable sales tax rate. For instance in New York City sales
tax is 8.25% while right across the George Washington Bridge in
New Jersey it's 3.5% and a bit northerly in Westchester County it
drops to 6.25%. Drive all the way down to Delaware and there's no
sales tax at all. A New York City resident is supposed to pay New
York City tax even on purchases made out of state; but it is
perfectly legal to use the possibility of your going outside
the city to buy your computer to convince a salesperson to lower
their price. And in most other venues except New York and California
a purchase made by mail from a company outside the state of the
purchaser is non-taxable.
LEASING (5.6)
--------------
The short answer to this option is DON'T. If you're VERY
strapped for capital think about it, but most commonly the lease
payments over the term of the lease add up to as much as or even
more than the cost of the system itself plus the interest on a loan
to buy it. If you absolutely must lease try to keep the term as
short as possible. Generally Mac power doubles every year while
price comes down by about a third. You don't want to lock yourself
into obsolete equipment. The most common lease term is two years,
but with a little shopping around you can find one year leases.
BE NICE TO YOUR SALESPERSON (5.7)
----------------------------------
This final tip ought to be obvious, but many people have a hard
time grasping it. If your salesperson likes you, he or she will
be much more amenable to giving you a good price. At the larger
dealers that will give you the best prices (if you know how to ask)
salespeople often don't care about low-end sales enough to do much
hard bargaining, and will often decide how low they're willing to
go based solely on how much they like a customer and what sort of
mood they're in. (Of course if your salesperson just broke up with
his boyfriend last night you're out of luck.) Not all stores will
be able to offer you a rock bottom price. Please don't get angry
about it if they can't. If your salesperson tells you that the
price you're asking for is ridiculous, get their lowest price,
thank them, and go somewhere else.
=====================================
THE GRAY MARKET AND MAIL ORDER (6.0)
=====================================
WHAT IS THE GRAY MARKET? (6.1)
-------------------------------
Due to Apple's extreme aversion to authorizing mail order
dealers, there are few if any authorized Apple mail-order dealers
(unlike in the PC world ). A recent random phone survey of several
mail order dealers advertising in MacUser and MacWorld found NO
authorized Apple dealers. Some Performa dealers like Staples
(1-800-333-3330) will sell their Performa configurations over the
phone. Unauthorized "Gray Market" dealers take advantage of lower
foreign prices in countries like Mexico by buying computers there
and reselling them here, sometimes selling them to the end user for
prices as low as other dealers can get their machines wholesale
from Apple. They also buy excess inventory from authorized
dealers at cost. The gray market dealers get product, and
the authorized dealers get steeper discounts from Apple for
ordering more machines.
ARE GRAY MARKET MACS COVERED BY APPLE WARRANTIES? (6.2)
--------------------------------------------------------
Gray market computers are still official Apple product
manufactured in the same four factories that make the machines sold
in the United States. The main caveat in the gray market is that
the computer you buy may or may not be eligible for warranty repair
by Apple. Whether an authorized Apple dealer will perform warranty
service on a gray market Mac depends almost entirely on the
authorized dealer you bring it to. You must make sure your gray
market Mac has a valid, non-defaced Apple serial number to have
any reasonable chance of getting warranty service. Some authorized
dealers remove serial numbers before selling the Macs into the gray
market so that Apple can't trace the product back to them. It is
almost impossible to find an Apple dealer who will perform warranty
service an a Mac without a valid serial number.
In the end a gray market Mac's warranty is only as good as
the company that sold it to you so make sure that the company you
buy from is reliable in performing service. When you buy from an
authorized dealer even if that dealer has a totally dishonest and
incompetent service department, you can always bring it to their
competitors for warranty service. In the gray market you're only
promised service from the company you buy from. If that company
goes out of business while they've got your computer in their
repair shop, you may never see it again. It's also very
inconvenient to have to ship your computer away by mail for
service and then have it shipped back.
DOES ANYONE KNOW A GOOD MAIL-ORDER COMPANY? (6.3)
--------------------------------------------------
Many mail-order dealers advertise in the back pages of MacUser
and MacWorld. Two that have to date seemed reasonably honest and
reliable are Shreve Systems (1-800-227-3971) and MacFriends
(1-800-331-1322). However their prices are not necessarily
better than what you could get from an authorized dealer. Don't
automatically assume mail-order prices are better. In many cases
they're not.
There are several steps you should take to protect yourself
when buying Macs through the mail. First pay by credit card even
if there's a surcharge for using a credit card. You should verify
that the card will not be charged until the computer is shipped. If
there is a problem with the shipment or if it fails to arrive, you
can contact the credit card company to dispute the charge. This is
a good idea even if you have had numerous good experiences with the
company previously. Jasmine Technologies, a primarily mail order
company, had an excellent reputation for fast, dependable service;
but when it went bankrupt in 1990, many people who had paid in
advance by check for hard drives were stranded without either a
drive or their money. Those who had paid by credit card were able
to get the charges removed by their credit card companies.
Secondly ask a few questions before purchasing a Mac by mail.
Keep a written record of who you talked to including time, dates
and what was said. Some good questions are:
1. Is the equipment brand new?
2. Is the box factory-sealed?
3. Does it come with an Apple warranty?
4. Does it come with an Apple registration card?
5. Does it have a valid serial number?
6. What is your return policy?
You may also want to verify with a local authorized dealer that the
offered configuration is indeed one Apple manufactures.
--
Elliotte Rusty Harold Department of Mathematics
elharo@shock.njit.edu New Jersey Institute of Technology
erh0362@tesla.njit.edu Newark NJ 07103
..